More of Blair Jackson's interview with Carlos Santana….

The last time I interviewed you was about 20 years ago, with Herbie Hancock, sitting around his pool in L.A. right after Swing of Delight came out.
Yeah, right. Well, thank God we're both still here, and still doing the swing of delight!

I want to talk to you about [performance and what your experience is like onstage. I saw the show last night [in Concord, Calif.] and thought it was really great. I hadn't seen you in a few years. It was a really good audience.
We haven't played in the Bay Area for maybe two years so it's great to se people hungry for our music. Especially with what's happening right now in the world, with the anger and the fear and all that. I know I need to hear some music that takes me out of the Bush cage.

I was impressed you took the time during the show to speak out about Bush. I was surprised.
It's important to pray for him that his soul will dictate to his mind to make a decision that would really benefit a lot of people on the planet, not just rich white people with a dark agenda. It's kind of like I said last night, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Ghandi said that. Some people have fear in what they do. They wrap themselves in the American flag like a burrito or something-I don't want to get into names, because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but that's not my agenda. My agenda is basically "God bless humanity"-not god bless one nation or one anything. That's still very negative to me. America shines the best when America does things from the spiritual point of view, not from a monetary point of view, or an ego point of view. I'm always trying to look at the big picture, the global picture, and with my music trying to get people to understand that we're all on this planet together and we have to love and respect each other.

I was really blown away by your opening band last night, Ozomatli-
Good! Good! I like to hear that!

They had so much energy and spirit and they're in that position in the music world where they're obviously just about to break through to great things. They're trying so hard every night. Can you remember what that feeling was line-that sense that you're on the verge of something big?
Sure! Of course. I'm still riding that wave. I'm still an opening band sometimes. I'm still an opening band for the Rolling Stones or Prince or Sting or Michael Jackson. I'm still opening for people. It's not a competition. I'm just as hungry as Ozomatli. Some people get to where I am and they park it. I haven't parked it. I still remember exactly what it was like to open up for my heroes-to open up for Sly Stone, Creedence Clearwater, Janis Joplin, Chicago, Paul Butterfield. You're happy to be there, honored to be playing with them, but you still have to go out and do your thing and maybe playing with those people gives you a little something extra because they're so great. Again, you're not competing with them.

I'm the same guy and I have the same erectus keepemupus; I have the same intensity about playing and about life. Some people might even be intimidated to play with a group like Ozomatli, because , like you say, they've got all that youthful energy and the crowd loves them. I like that energy. I thrive on it. They're a great band. They just need a couple of songs to get to the radio airwaves so they can get to the next level.

More on "performers":
I'm not interested in Carlos Santana the way Michael Jackson is interested in Michael Jackson, with all respect to my brother. But you can tell he don't leave the house unless he's got four or five hours in front of the mirror. [Laughs] That's too much a waste of time and energy for me. It might work for him, but it might not in the long run. The worst thing that can happen to a performer is if you're not living in your heart, you become predictable and you become a caricature of yourself. I'm not interested in seeing a Carlos Santana cartoon. I'm not dumping on it. I validate it. I know there's a lot of beauty in the Monkees and Michael Jackson and N'Sync-they give a lot of young people a lot of joy. Some of them will grow up-like Ricky Martin grew out of Menudo, and maybe one day he'll be like Frank Sinatra or Paul Anka. I see goodness in all of it. It's only when it's phony, shallow or superficial that it's wasted energy.

Some people felt that Supernatural seemed overly calculated to sound commercial.
Oh yeah, I got a lot of that. I see reviews saying things about Supernatural and myself, and they can't hide the jealousy they have, because they feel there's some sort of formula gimick gadget gizmo. But there isn't. They can try it. I can give them the same amplifier, the same songs and everything and it might not work for them. Because they don't have my intentions, motives and purpose. I'm not doing all this just to get on the radio. I'm doing it to get people to think and feel collectively about totality and absoluteness because with everything that's happening on this planet, musicians have a responsibility to wake up the masses to the other side-"Peace on Earth," John Coltrane; "One Love," Bob Marley. Marvin Gaye saw it, too.

It's not a grandioso thing, either. I just don't have any fear to work with Mr. Placido Domingo or P.O.D. [both of whom are guests on Shaman]. I don't have those kind of ideas that I only play with Keith Jarrett or Al DiMeola or whoever.

You're inclusive, no exclusive.
Right. Why put such a low ceiling on yourself that you say, "I don't do windows." The whole world and life is nothing but windows. That's the difference between myself and a lot of musicians. This is why I love my brother Ry Cooder. He's my man. We don't have that fear to go to Madagascar or go to Cuba or whatever and maybe for half an hour look like total idiots because we don't play their kind of music. But we're gonna get it! I want to go to Timbuktu and play with Ali Farka Toure. Just give me a little bit of time and I'm going to get to it.

People forget how much African music is a part of what we now call "Latin" music, and of course rock 'n' roll has African roots.
Absolutely! I step back and look at the people before me-B.B. King, Otis Rush, Buddy Guy and all the English guys-Jeff Beck, Peter Green, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton. All of us are cut from the same thing; all of us are playing African music. Now a lot of people were upset when I said that at the Grammys. They didn't even want me to come to Spain, because I said, "I don't play Spanish music, I don't play Latin music. I play African music." They got ticked off.

It struck me last night at the show that it's like you're on a boat in the middle of this river, and what we call "Santana music" flows all around you, and it always has; it's the same river that you were riding in 1968 and 1974 and 1989… pulling this musician and that musician onto the raft with you and plucking from different styles you pass on the riverbank…It's a bit of a tortured metaphor, but you know what I'm saying…It's more than just the continuity of your guitar sound and the Latin percussion…
I'm really touched that you would say such a thing, man, because the first thing I heard when I was consciously stepping outside of being a Mexican or being a child in Tijuana, I heard this old dude say to another old dude, "Hey man, how's it going? What's happening?" And the other guy says, "Oh, you know, the river just keeps rolling along." I thought, "What the hell does that mean?" He meant consciousness; human consciousness keeps flowing. Old Man River. That river just keeps rolling along.

I step back and see how many people before me-B.B. King, Otis Rush, Buddy Guy and all the English guys-Jeff Beck, Peter Green, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton-all of us are cut from the same thing. All of us are playing African music. Now, a lot of people were upset when I said that at the Grammys. They didn't even want me to come to Spain, because I said, "I don't play Spanish, I don't play Latin. I play African music." They got ticked off.

I'm able to appreciate Irish music as different from Welsh or Scottish music or Norwegian music. I don't just put a white hat on it say it's all "white music." So why do you want to say what I do is just "Latin"? I like to respect individuality. If you have four sisters and two brothers, none of them are the same in my house. So why do want to lump everybody in the same thing? Okay, we are Latin. We are all Spanish. Spanish people play the way they do because they got conquered by the Moors; otherwise they'd be playing polkas and waltzes like everyone else in Europe. But they were conquered by the Moors and they have that Islamic [he sings] weee-ayyyeeeyayy.

So people get upset when I say these things, because they want to be able to say, "You're Mexican and you're mariachi." The first label Rolling Stone put on me and my band was "psychedelic mariachi rock." [Laughs] I said "Really? That's what you think we're playing?" Wrong, man. We're playing African music.

The first label that Rolling Stone put on me and my band was "psychedelic mariachi rock." [Laughs] I said "Really? That's what you think we're playing?" Wrong, man. We're playing African music. That's what gave birth to merengue, charanga, cha-cha-cha, mambo, cumbia, danzón, bolero, rumba, shuffles, ska, and everything from Chicago, Mississippi, Texas or California. The basis of all this music came from Africa.

When you play in Africa, do the audiences relate more to the Afro-Cuban elements in your music?
Probably not, because they hear that all the time. If I play Puerto Rican music when I go to Puerto Rico, they hear that music 24 hours a day; they're probably tired of it and want to hear something different. I mean, the African audiences react to "Jingo" and certain African things, but because they play that kind of music so much, they like the contrasts. It's that way all over the world when we play-they want to hear the contrasts. That's what's stimulating and inspiring.

On being transported by music…
The first time I was transported out of myself by music was B.B. King, Charles Lloyd's band with Keith Jarrett and Jack de Johnette, and John Handy's band. One of the other guys who really did it for me was John Gilmore in Sun Ra's band. He was the first to really make interdenominational, multidimensional intergalactic music. Not Coltrane, not Dexter Gordon-John Gilmore and Sun Ra in the '50s. Then you heard [Coltrane's] "A Love Supreme." Coltrane went to see Sun Ra and heard them. "Oh, you found the key to all the chord changes. You found the key to all the rhythms!" It was John Gilmore. I know my history, man.

For drummers, it's Papa Joe Jones and Buddy Rich-and then everybody else: Tony Williams, Elvin Jones. Although Elvin Jones did come up with something that was extremely different. In two notes I can tell the difference between Lee Morgan and Fats Navarro or Freddie Hubbard. Or between Kenny Burrell and Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass and Grant Green. I love uniqueness and individuality. So I feel really grateful with God that he has allowed me the heart to be open enough to take all these things in. Some people say, "Oh, I only listen to Chet Atkins," or "I only listen Art Tatum."

That's just sad…
It is sad! I don't just listen Miles Davis with Red Garland and Philly Joe Jones. What's that about, man? I listen all Miles; I love all of it. Especially the Agartha stuff, because that sounds like jungle music; that is some of the wildest stuff you'll ever hear.

What's that Miles piece you use at the beginning of the show?
It's called "Car Chase." It's from the last CD that he made, Doo-Bop. I've been using that for many years now. It gets people going. I like that.

What do you like to do with a sound check? Today, you were working out the tempo on one new song.
That was "Truth Don't Die," which is by Fema Kuti. I always tell my band I don't want to sound like Palo Alto; I want to sound like real Africa. I want to get past the Fresnos of Africa. [Laughs]

You were listening to the band guys, walking around the arena a little bet, checking it out as they played.
I'm getting the guy at the front-of-house to get all the things they're not getting. Because when people hear it, they start dancing and laughing and crying. It's just like creating crystal from a different kind of sand. I do have to remind the musicians once in a while when someone parks the energy. I don't like them to put it in park. I need to hear it in first gear, because there are going to be a lot hills and valleys…

And you eventually want to go into overdrive…
Exactly. Don't drive it like you would from here to Fresno where everything's flat and monotone. Don't do that. For me, it's going to be boring and for the audience, too. I like dynamics.

Is it at all intimidating to know that because you have outside singers on the album you probably can't play some of the material live?
We do it anyway. We do "Smooth," "Maria," "Game of Love" [from Supernatural]. We can do all those songs or I wouldn't put them on the CD. We could even do the Dido song [on Shaman]; we'll see. I like that song a lot.

The Placido Domingo song might be trouble.
[Laughs] That might be trouble; you're right. We could do as an instrumental. I snuck a little bit of it on "Day of Celebration." But that one might be trouble, because there's only one Placido Domingo, you know.

Are you a shaman?
Yeah. There's goodness in everyone. That's the affirmation of a shaman.

But the word also implies a healer, magician…
A spiritual healer. Sure. We do that with our music. You're a healer, too. The way you write, the gift that you have to put words together to have impact on people…that's being a shaman. Anyone who complements life is a shaman. It's not just Bob Marley
or some guy in the jungle or an Apache. John Coltrane, Stravinsky, Einstein. All of us have shamanic things in us. My wife said, "People are gonna think you're tripping, calling yourself a shaman." I'll say it like this: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Allah, Rama, Jehovah-they're all pointing at the same thing: the light inside your heart. Yet most people, instead of looking at the light, they go and smell his finger, instead of what he's pointing at. So that's what a shaman is to me-someone who can spread the spiritual virus. It's very contagious. We want to invite people to transmute fear and anger the way Jesus transmuted wine from water. We invite people to create a masterpiece of joy out of your life; out of all the emotions, all the up and downs; your horns and your halo.